Trying it a different way ...

[OKTrap]

I am going to attempt to try this a different way.

We are looking for calls to add to our product selections. If you are a call maker, and you wish to have your product listed on our site, please send your price list, minimum purchase requirements, product description or picture with three references who can attest to the quality of your calls to the following:

OKTrap Supply
19721 East 3rd Street
Tulsa, OK 74108

Or email to oktrap1@cox.net

If you happen to make junk, please do not bother. We want to provide quality to our customers. Predator calls are not the only calls that we are looking for. So if you make other game or foul calls, please send us your lists and the other specified criteria also.

Thank you:

Reginald Murray - Owner
OKTrap Supply

[quackerstacker]

hey trap, didnt mean to get under your skin a couple days ago.

steve

[THO Game Calls]

Glad to see ya back.   If I ever get caught up, I will get in touch with you.

Al
Tho Game Calls
www.thogamecals.com

[OKTrap]

No problemo Steve. I overreacted on a real bad day that just kept on getting worse and worse. It wasn't really you ... I just thought it was. No hard feelings here towards you or anyone else.

Thank you Al. I know for a first hand fact you have the quality we are looking for. I also believe, that some of last years Youth Calling Contest winners, bagged their first yotes and I believe cats using the calls that you donated to the contest.

I know from being there at the calling contest ... that several adults were trying to take your calls away from their kiddo's ... just because of your name on them. LOL ... I think the kiddo's won that first round.

[Todd Rahm]

If you happen to make junk, please do not bother. We want to provide quality to our customers.

I'm confused?    I know there are beginners here and folks working on hoaning thier spinning abilities, I have 500+ calls and while some are better then others I can say I don't think I have any "junk" in my collection, so I was wondering if ya could give a description of junk? 

I kinda take that whole statement as a jab at he call makers here, and think the fellers here  deserve more respect then that.

Now with that said there are better call spinners out there and if thats what ya want maybe take another approach at, but I don't think thats the way, and the guys that don't spin "junk" just might suprise ya and abstain from your offer in support of thier fellow spinners.

If what I just mentioned doesnt come across in an understading way ask your self this.....

What does that eight year old boy think, does he now think I'm calling his calls junk 

Todd

[MattS]

your email address isn't working for me.  pm sent.

[OKTrap]

There are those who take pride in what they make, and they know that they have low end and high end products. We do not want to offer a "prototype" design that you would not want to put your name on. We want to be proud to offer what we do, and we want our suppliers to be proud to put their names on their products. We want to offer designs and calls that "spinners" I guess you called them, have made multiples of with little or no variations in the quality. We want to offer our clients the same items that you yourself would want to take into the field. We want to offer those "Bragging" prizes that good makers hold so dear. The one's that are usually reserved for the closest friends or gifts.

[studabaka]

I like the second part of your definition. It's clear, positive, and gives a good sense of the attributes you are looking. Stands on it's own and the first part isn't really needed.

[FinsnFur]

In my opinion, if you took it to heart, or persoanlly as a "Jab" to the call makers here ... then I guess you do not particulary have the calls or products that we want to offer our clients. However, I know that others on here have very high quality products, that they are proud of, and I'm sure they themselves know it and did not take offense by what I previouvsly stated.

Todd has never turned a call, a day in his life Reggy.

[Todd Rahm]

Simply put "Approach Determines Response", and when you approach the FNF Hand Call Forum looking for hand calls to fill your store shelves, and you allude to there being "junk" makers here, when its you WHO wants something, Determines the response ya got from me.  Seems a fella  running a business could and should use a little more tact if he expects to be successful.

You also required them to have three references........well even junk, calls critters, but if its finish work and eye appeal ya need ya don't have to go far references.

In my opinion, if you took it to heart, or personally as a "Jab" to the call makers here ... then I guess you do not particularly have the calls or products that we want to offer our clients. However, I know that others on here have very high quality products, that they are proud of, and I'm sure they themselves know it and did not take offense by what I previously stated.

You 100% correct I must not have the calls or products that you want to offer to your clients.   And if thats the case you better take your business else where, because some of my so called calls all came from the makers of this board, a few from CCO, a few from TPP, and few from PM. So that perty much seals that what your looking for is not here.

I have 22 fine and dandy junk calls form AL, you know the guy who's rear end ya had your head buried up yesterday. You just don't get it do ya.......................and ya want them to come running to you.  

Ya know I have been neutral with you and the issues ya had over your other post, but you are beginning to make the hackles on my neck stand. This is my opinion and not of the boards here, but maybe you would be better served running your "want add" on Predator Masters. Your not here for the call makers your here to make a quick buck. Matter fact didn't see any "Custom Predator Calls" on your site?

What you do for the kids is great, but you don't need to throw that out to redirect the subject, your mentoring them is not the issue here.  

I'v stated my opinion to you and you have shared it so be it. Good luck

[HaMeR]

kinda like the mass produced plastic pieces of junk

They work. Thats what a lot of fellas used before this explosion of custom calls came along with the advent of the internet. Back when a fella lived in the middle of nowhere & had to pick them up from a mail order catalog. I'm not real bright & I may turn junk calls,, but I know what was used before. Mass produced plastic pieces of junk.

Maybe you can find what you're looking for in a "Locator Calls Guild".

[THO Game Calls]

I remember when I was approached by another company that wanted to buy my calls for their store, they asked that I send a sample first.  I know that this company did the same with several call makers - and some of them got rejected.  

A few years ago, there was a big discussion after the globe hunt about finishing the insides of calls.  A couple well known and respected call makers thought it was not important.  I have gotten feedback from some notable collectors - not Todd, I am leaving him out of this - but others who colelct quietly about calls from some "big name" call makers coming to them with chuck marks still on the call, glue lines, poor finishes and other things that detract from a call.

Then, I think there are the guys who chuck a piece of wood and start spinning with no idea where they are going to come out.  Just because it is a pretty piece of wood, does not mean that if you drill a hole through it and stick a reed in it, that it is going to work well in the field.  Some designs need to be tested - for lots of things other than how they sound.  Fit in the hand, ease of use, durability - lots of stuff.

And I can see his point about the molded toneboards that we discussed in pervious threads.  Todd - now you are back in it - you said yourself that they did not have the eye appeal you were looking for.  Some of them may indeed work in the field but may not sell well next to someone elses call who has taken the time to make the design more pleasing.  If I was going to buy a call to resell, I surely would not want something  - well - ugly - in my show case.  There are only so many dollars in a small businesses budget - and it's not the amount of product you have, it's the quality that causes sell through and brings in a profit.  A shelf full of items not moving is disaster for a small business.

The biggest problem I see with attracting call makers who have "made a name" for themselves is the bennefit to the call maker.  I don't want this taken the wrong way, but in all honesty, if I can sell every call I make for 25 or 30 bucks, and can't make enough of them, what bennefit is it for me to make a dozen calls and sell them at 10 or 15 bucks to someone who is then going to sell them for 25 or 30?  

A bonker takes me somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 hours to turn, and sand.  Then it has to be finished, buffed, tuned, signed - and when i am done, I have at least 3 hours in the call, and 6 to 10 bucks in the materials - which includes sandpaper, finish, reeds, and wood.  So if I sell that call to someone for 10 or 15 bucks - well, you see my point.

A better deal for the call maker would be consignment - but the seller would have to be trusted enough for a call maker to do it.  

I would love to be able to make a dozen calls a day.  But I can't, and still be able to put my name on them.  

I would not take the "junk" statement to harshly - instead, I would take it as a reminder that your name should be on every call you make.  If you are a new call maker starting out and you think you make a quality product, send it off and see what the feedback is from someone who is going to have to sell it to someone else.  It's a great way to get your name out there and to get your calls recognized. 

AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com

[OKTrap]

Studabaka ... to what are you referring?

Jim ... I do not know who makes and who doesn't. That's why I rely on you or your makers here to let me know. And let me know who is turning out junk products.

HaMeR ... I too have had to use the Wal Mart calls. But they don't seem to last long. Usually not more than a season or two. I don't wan't our clients to have to go there and buy something that inevitably is not made in America. I do not know your product, but with your reply, I do not think that you would be a juk maker. However, I would not be able to know the difference if you did. So there again, the others on here would be the ones to better advise me of that.

Al ... good points. We would entertain consignment for those who wish to persue that avenue with us. However, I know if I was making something, I would want the green for it up front, instead of waiting for it to get dusted on someones shelf before it moved.

Todd ... I will work on my tactfulness. Though I have been called a "Spade is a Spade" guy for most of my life ( I think I will lay blame for that on 13 years in the service of my country ). You have shown insight and brought to my attention the error of my ways, and I see now that there are those that I will encounter in life, with the extremely sensitive emotions who will require a more tactful eutopian approach to their feelings, when they require explanation to something they do not understand.  :roflmao:

I have on my planner, times alloted for a select few others to have the honor of having their rears worn as a prized head dress by me. To include but not limited to: Jim, Brent, Matt, Alan, Bopeye, Studabaka, and a few others to whom I hold in high regard for their person and opinions. I do not have time on my planner to alert these folks prior to being placed high atop my 6'8" frame. If it's not a good time when you feel yourself being lifted up to an altitude meeting the previously specified height, please let me know, and we can reschedule a more appropriate time for you to be paraded around on my head.  For those who are scared of heights, please let me know and medication can be supplied for the duration of the event. :roflmao:

Thank you.

[studabaka]

There are those who take pride in what they make, and they know that they have low end and high end products. We do not want to offer a "prototype" design that you would not want to put your name on. We want to be proud to offer what we do, and we want our suppliers to be proud to put their names on their products. We want to offer designs and calls that "spinners" I guess you called them, have made multiples of with little or no variations in the quality. We want to offer our clients the same items that you yourself would want to take into the field. We want to offer those "Bragging" prizes that good makers hold so dear. The one's that are usually reserved for the closest friends or gifts.

Sorry, I was refering to this...... I think it reads well and once ya define what is 'in the box' then ya don't really need to define what ain't.

[Ladobe]

Excellent reply Al... very well and politely written, and with many points covered that are spot on.

I went down this same road years ago.   With a huge Canadian guide service and with three companies in England, South Africa and New Zealand that wanted me to make a line of custom calls for them with their name on them.    Then again with Jones when he was first starting up APC and wanted to carry my custom calls.   My calls took much longer to produce than those of most of the other custom makers, mainly because of my very intensive finish process.   So there was no way as a one man shop doing it as a hobby that I could produce the numbers needed for these folks even if I had wanted to (and I didn't).   

There is no benefit at all for a "known" custom call maker to supply calls to a middleman at wholesale prices or even on consignment.   IOW, just a why take less for your hard work and earned talent just to line the pockets of someone else kind of thing.   New custom makers still learning/improving their craft and building their reputation are the ONLY custom builders who might benefit from what you offer.   And whether you agree or not, a lot of these new spinners are producing very serviceable calls as they learn.

So I agree with this quote 1000%.   

.....The biggest problem I see with attracting call makers who have "made a name" for themselves is the benefit to the call maker.  I don't want this taken the wrong way, but in all honesty, if I can sell every call I make for 25 or 30 bucks, and can't make enough of them, what benefit is it for me to make a dozen calls and sell them at 10 or 15 bucks to someone who is then going to sell them for 25 or 30? 

Larry

[OKTrap]

Good point Al. I do not know in what way or how it would benefit a "Known Maker" as we don't carry any products from them yet. Other than a broader recognition, free promotion for the makers - as we do that, a potentially overwhelming demand ... I do not yet know of the other potential benefits.

However, I do know that I can buy a quality beautiful call, sell for $5 or more over cost with the proper promotion, which would be less than retail cost plus shipping, and both parties are making money. We do not "Stroke" out clients on pricing. Most of what we offer and provide, is no more than $5 - $10 over cost, and what shipping there is, is not figured into it. Our profit margin is extremely low, because we want to help and promote more than we want to treat folks like they are at WalMart. About 85% or more of our profit margin comes from our Wildlife Control Service ... but retailing the way we do, allows us to meet folks, promote trapping and the outdoor activities and make new friends. This last I hold in higher regard than knowing I "stroked" someone on a price just to get their hard earned money. I don't know how long we will continue to be able to carry one this way ... but when and if the time comes that I am required to stroke a customer to stay in business, I will close our doors.

Changes made Studabaka ... thank you.

[Todd Rahm]

And I can see his point about the molded toneboards that we discussed in pervious threads.  Todd - now you are back in it - you said yourself that they did not have the eye appeal you were looking for

Al this post isnt about tone boards, and I still stand by my opinions of toneboards, but my response wasn't in reply to "Eye Appeal" It was in response OKTrap coming to the hand call forum wanting something form call makers, and the alluding that some of them make "junk". I didn't look at this as anything else.

And as you can see he has went back and edited several post in an attemp I will assume to make look like the replies are off base and don't make sense.  That there is another volumn speaker....remind ya of anyone else, that used to do that on a regualar basis.

Heres my example Al

when they require explanation to something they do not understand. 

.   

[THO Game Calls]

[remind ya of anyone else, that used to do that on a regualar basis.

LOL - that one hit home alright LOL

He did teach me one thing though - instead of saying the mouth piece is tapered on the inside, I will now say

"mouthpiece features an aggressive vortex air intake, with the single reed set deep within the call, making this call very easy to blow"


Some people are in this to make money - some are in it because they actually like it.  Now if you like it, and you can make a buck or two without hurting anyone, I think that is OK. 

On the other hand, there are folks who want you to make calls for their stores, calls that they have exclusive rights to - that ONLY they could sell - and want to you make them almost at cost for them.   Folks who want you to make acrylic calls that they can lazer engrave their names on and sell in their stores as their own -  and when you say no, they vote to ban you from their site.   Folks who send you PM's and E mails on how to make wide flat lanyards - begging you to show them, and when you do, instead of saying thank you - vote to ban you from their site and then the day you are banned become a call maker and sell the very lanyards you showed them how to make.

There are a lot of people making calls and selling products for predator hunters who only want to cash in.  OKTrap may not always go about things the best way, but i don't think he is one of them.

Somehow I can't see him making a video about calling thick cover where he is standing by a fence shooting the breeze with a farmer while a FoxPro plays out in the field and stopping the conversation long enough to shoot a coyote who probably hasn't eaten in a month because there are so many of them in the area.   

Don't get me started Todd LOL - I could go on for awhile and it wont do anyone any good.   Suffice it to say, I have never seen any of those folks I mentioned here do squat for anyone but themselves, let alone a bunch of kids.

Everything else being equal - that stands pretty high in my book.   And he had the decency to come here and say thank you to each of us who donated.   I can name a few folks who don't know how to do that - one of them just got a cush job with Hunters Specialties and he is pretty respected here on this board - but he will never get squat from me again.  Count on that one.

AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com

[OKTrap]

Do not assume ...

I edited the reply out of respect to what Studabaka typed ... and for no other reason than that. I respect him, and he's another who's opinion that I value.

I could be wrong, but I believe he was using a tactful method of letting me know that you did not warrant the reply I previously gave. So out of courtesy to him, and what I believe was his attempt to keep me calm about you treading in on my post in a most unjustified fashion, I removed it.

I did not post to start a discussion about who produces junk, and who doesn't ... I posted in order to find suppliers for my business.

Now the sample that we previously required: It is our policy that a sample be sent from new suppliers because we do not want, nor have the funding to absorb, a piece of junk nor multiples of ... sight unseen ... on a prepaid order from a supplier.

We recently were approached by Skydent Exports from Pakistan, who supposedly manufactures surgical equipment and wildlife control products. Now regardless that they provide products on the far end of the spectrum ... we required they send a sample. Especially since their website stated word for word (Images included) the exact product description of one of my suppliers here in the states. Upon receiving the product, before even opening the very bent package ... I could see that there was a quality issue. Inspection of the item revealed that it was complete JUNK. It was not near the quality that we wish to provide. It didn't even have enough quality to meet the "JUNK" category.

Now if I had followed their policy, I would have had to place a $1000 order before viewing their items ... and I would have taken a loss that I would have had a real hard time absorbing and recovering from.

However, since the opinions of most on here I value and can take to the bank ... we are waving the policy of a sample item ( which is usually donated to a youth event after a quality inspection), and simply looking for suppliers who DO NOT MAKE JUNK.

These suppliers know who they are, I do not. So, the reference requirement for items that I do not know are required, in order to replace the sample requirement. I understand that with custom items ... one cannot simply "Turn Loose" of an item that they put so much time into just to send out to everyone who wants to carry their products. Those who have donated to youth events and activities ... we thank you very much for your assistance, and I can assure you that none of your donations have stayed with us, all were given out accordingly, and made a lot of kids very excited, and others even more eager to participate in the events knowing they have the potential to receive some very outstanding items.

In other cases ... samples sent that do not go to youth events after inspection, get paid for in the first order so the maker does not lose any money on them.

I am long winded it looks like when trying to explain my position in most cases as I look back on previous replies. I guess it's my feeble attempt at being "tactful". So, I will now revert to my former self:

We are looking for suppliers in the Custom call market. We want to offer our clients quality ... not JUNK. If you are not a JUNK maker, please don't take offense to my lack of tactfulness. If you wish to potentially be a supplier for us, please send the information which was required in this original posting. If you do not wish to supply for us, thank you anyway and I am sorry that we could not come to an agreement for your product.

Thank you:

[THO Game Calls]

Ah - TACT - what a wonderful concept.

Back a few years ago, I had a heated discussion with a Marine Corps Captain - well, he took offense to my "tact" and marched me right into the Colonel -

After explaining my position, the Colonel seemed to understand, but he told me that Tact - was the art of telling someone to go to hell and having them look forward to the trip, and I should be more tactful.

The colonel dismissed me, and as I marched out his door, my favorite Capitan was waiting - "What did he say" he asked -

I told him -

The Colonel told me to tell you to go to hell  :)

AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com