FoxPro's new Open Country Caller

[KySongDog]

The old style WT remote will not only work at one mile, it will work well beyond one mile.  The new style will not only work at 600, mine will work at 800 and others will work farther. 

Why does anyone want or need a remote that works at a mile or even 800 yards?     Has anyone killed a coyote sitting a mile away from the e-caller??     The whole idea sounds pretty dumb to me.

Hell, I can't even SEE further than 50-100 yards where I hunt!! 

Semp

[George Ackley]

I may be in the market for a elec, call and after all this i like to see and hear a WT

[THO Game Calls]

Rich my blood pressure is just fine thank you.

This nonsense has been going on since 2005.   As I said, I actually talked to the people at the FCC who did the certification.  I have seen the original documents.  They are actually available on line.  

What was posted by FoxPro about the WT remote was misleading at best.  

If I am wrong, please show some proof of it.   Such a simple way to put the entire issue to rest.   They have had 3 years to do so, yet not one shred of evidence has been shown to support the claims that Mike Dillon make in October of 2005, not only against WT, but other E caller makers as well.

Please let me refresh your memory.

" Problem is xxxxxxxxxxxxx   that it is NOT approved for the type of activity that it is being used for. If you look at his liscence with the FCC, it states that he is using the transmitter to signal lights, which we all know he is not doing. The other problem is that anyone using this system could also be subject to the wrath and fury of the FCC, including fines. If someone is using this caller, and there is an emergency that someone is trying to get through on the same channel, it will not go through. Are you condoning illegal activity? "  Mike Dillon October 2005

Now, Rich, if FoxPro knew this to be true, then why not just report it to the FCC.  That would put WT out of business and there would be no discussion of this matter at all.

" The penalty is actually very steep($100000 plus double your profit made from selling an illegal system) and if a manufacturer is turned in, then the FCC has no choice but to enforce its rules. "   Mike Dillon October 2005

But WT is still in business, still making great e callers.  Again, FoxPro has has 3 years to report him, put him out of business and gain that market share, yet instead, all they have done is bash him on their web site and other Internet boards.

It's put up or shut up time.  The only thing that has kept this from happening in the past is the dicks -  I mean dictators - at PM wont allow it.  

FoxPro needs to show some proof that the WT e caller is illegal.   Not speculation, not a rehash of FRS radio rules from a layman's perspective, but an Order from the FCC fining WT and Bill Martz and making him stop producing, and consumers stop using, that model of WT caller.

If they can't do that, they need to take it off their web site and have their field staff stop misleading people.  It really doesn't do anything for Fox Pro's creadability, and when you repeat it, it sure doesn't do much for yours either.

Al

[THO Game Calls]

Semp,

the WT is a professional caller designed for more than just calling coyotes.  If you are live trapping lions or other dangerous game, you might want to be more than 400 yards away  :)

Al

[KySongDog]

Semp,

the WT is a professional caller designed for more than just calling coyotes.  If you are live trapping lions or other dangerous game, you might want to be more than 400 yards away  :)

Al

Hadn't thought about it that way.  Makes sense.   

Semp

[Rich]

Al,
I remind you again that FoxPro didn't ask me to say anything about W.T.  I won't be mentioning the name of that company again. It always causes a war when anybody mentions them. Sorry for bringing the subject up in the first place. Fighting over brand names is a losing battle anyway. Kind of a "my Dad can whip YOUR Dad" kind of thing.

[snowcamoman]

This is a bit of FYI info. sent to FCC in regards to making an identical remote like the old WT. For those not familiar with the older WT remote, it was basically a  FRS radio board stripped out and rigged up to a DTMF generator. If you wanted to start your own e-caller company, wouldn't you want to use that same type of long range remote? It was a key selling point when I bought mine and was a highly touted feature. Here's FCC's response if you were thinking of trying to make your own FRS/DTMF style remote. All of the e-callers nowadays are using the same type RF Linx Tech. chips. Wouldn't it be reasonable to think that the ranges would all be fairly close?

Inquiry:
Please comment on the likelihood of a certification grant for a Part 95 Subpart B Family Radio Service station based on the following: I plan to take a properly certified commercial FRS radio, remove the plastic case and speaker, and install the radio in a different case along with a DTMF keypad that I will plug into the radio MIC jack. I plan to market this device as part of a wildlife caller where the user can control the operation of the caller by pushing buttons on the transmitter to change the volume, change the type of sound, turn the unit on and off, etc. I wish to use FRS radios so that I can offer my customers a remote control range of up to 2 miles. Other wildlife callers use low power Part 15 certified transmitters that have a range of maybe a few hundred yards. Just imagine the competitive advantage I'll have with this long range system! Note that I will remove the speaker so that the user has no ability to monitor for emergency communications, and that the transmissions will obviously be one-way. If you will not issue a grant for the above transmitter, then it follows that any currently certified transmitter of the type described above that is sold for the above intended use, regardless of the use stated on the certification, will constitute an illegal use of the FRS radio service, and will subject the seller to action by the FCC. If this logic is not correct, please explain.

Response:
Part 95.193 of our rules require that the primary use of FRS is two-way voice communication with another person. One way, non voice communication, digital data, tone activation transmission are only permitted as ancillary functions and limited to the requirements under part 95.193 (a) (1) and (2). Your modification would render the device unable to be used for the primary use of two-way voice communication with another person and could not be granted under the FRS rules.  Further, per part 95.104(b), you must not make any internal modific! ation to an FRS unit.  Any such modification would cancel the FCC certification and void your authority to operate the unit in the FRS band.

The second part of your inquiry implies that others are currently marketing or operating certified radios radios as you have proposed.  Given your description, they seem to be operating the devices illegally. You may directly contact FCC/OET/Lab Auditing and Compliance Branch (raymond.laforge@fcc.gov). Please include as much detail as possible: nature of violation, FCC ID(s), transmitter operating locations and marketing information, model numbers. Also include your full name, address, and phone contact info.  The FCC will investigate these operations and may take further enforcement actions.

[THO Game Calls]

I understand Rich.  You seem to have jumped into the lions den.  Doesn't look like you are getting much support either.  At least the Minaska boys showed up for a bit.

Fighting over brand names is a losing battle anyway. Kind of a "my Dad can whip YOUR Dad" kind of thing

I agree

Weren't all those:

Fox Pro  Vs Loudmouth

Fox Pro Vs Wildlife Tech

and now FoxPro vs Minaska

wars pretty silly?  

I can't wait till this summer when Western Rivers brings out the new Night Stalker.

Bet the fur starts flying the day it is released.





Al

[THO Game Calls]

Let me see Snowcamoman (how are you by the way - long time no see)

That being the case, why has Fox Pro not reported them and put them out of business?  I am sure the Dillons could have just bought a WT and sent it to the FCC to have them look at and crush Bill Martz, done it quietly and with no fuss on the boards and just taken over that high end market share that WT seems to have?

Hell, the Dillons could have had someone else do it for them and insulated themselves from the whole mess.  They could have had you do it for them, or Guess or anyone esle.

The fact remains, they didn't.  And I think they owe an expanation of why they didn't,   They were content to trash them on the internet, on their web site and boards, with their field staff and supporters, so why didn't they follow through and go all the way?

That they didn't leads one to believe  they really didn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Al

[studabaka]

 :roflmao: Classic  :roflmao:

[The Bandit]

I can't wait till this summer when Western Rivers brings out the new Night Stalker.

Bet the fur starts flying the day it is released.

Hell you don't have to wait that long here you go....................How does that feel Mikey look a little bit familiar ?

Nothing is sacred in this industry get used to it.


http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=apc&product_name=Nite+Stalker

[snowcamoman]

THO Al,
It's been awhile, long time no see. FCC has a way for companies to pay a fine without that citation ever showing up on the companies record. I'll dig through my stack of information and try to find that detail. It's basically a "loophole" to keep companies in good public view and at the same time get citation monies. Makes sense though, FCC doesn't want companies to go under, they're all part of the same Government that collects taxes. No industry is bad industry for Uncle Sam. I'll try to find that detail though, because it's an interesting one.

Honestly though, I have all of the callers around, they all have their strong points and I use them all. I have a favorite, but that's because it fits my needs.

Anybody who claims one company is the best in all aspects is absolutely LOST!!!! They all have strong points and everybody will view things differently. Can't we all just get along and go hunting?????

[THO Game Calls]

If I could get a Minaska remote for my WT I would be a happy camper.

Are you saying that WT was fned?

Is there any proof of it?

Al

[FinsnFur]

Snow~man, do you still have your evolution results available? And if so, how current is it?....meaning with models.
I know a few years ago you did one on all the models available at that time.  Just wondering if it had been appended or updated.

[snowcamoman]

THO,
No, I do not know if WT was fined for the remote. However, it is something that a company could keep from the public viewing capacity based on how FCC allows companies to pay fees direct to the IRS. I need to find the literature on it so you can see what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they were fined, but it's sure strange that one of their strong features on the old callers disappeared on the new 2030 model. That new model could have been built with the same remote wouldn't you think?

Fins-N-Fur
I'm sorry, I guess I'm lost on the "evolution" results. Do you mean the evolution of WT callers? If so, I have varieties ranging from the old Tube Style model to the Backpack Model, to the MP3 version, to the "Programmable" model, to the 2020 model (Same as "Programmable" model, only non-programmable with 2 presets, to the 2030 current model. There is only one version that I do not have and it's a model prior to the 2020 programmable, based on an MMC memory card. I used to have one of these, but sent it in to get sounds put on it and low and behold, I got a non-programmable back. Not exactly what I had in mind, but I know where a few MMC's are and have my name on the list to buy them when the owner's want to sell.

Edit: Fins-N-Fur, I must be tired, I realized what you're asking. I have the newest model of Minaska Ultimate One, FP Scorpion & FX5. I do not and have been "told" cannot have a new WT though by the owner...lol.... My guess and based on the amplifier in the new caller is that they are very similar for volume. Sound quality will be the same since the bottleneck is that TOA speaker. The only difference in the older WT and new models is obviously the size, new shorter range remote with some new preset features, and a different amplifier.

Here's a question that no new WT owner can answer me.  I couldn't find it in the literature or when I tinkered around with the 2030 either.  So here's the chance for the WT KAS-2030 guys to help me out and answer a nagging question on the new WT.  How do you change the transmitting channels??? #15 on this list.
http://www.wildlifetech.com/pages/transmit.htm


Honestly though on the sounds and callers guys. Some of the new sounds coming out are absolutely great sounding and high quality. I'm not trying to take away from WT, because they do have some great sounds. WT has a very extensive library of sounds and their Moose sounds are wonderful, however the new sounds being made by FoxPro are superb. The quality and realism is all there and anybody who wants to claim otherwise is just in a state of denial. Minaska added some really good Woodpecker sounds as well.  Does it matter to the animals??? Depends on who you talk to and what product their selling that day I guess. It's just like a fishing lure, the one you have the most faith in and use the most is obviously going to be the top performer. Oh, wait, this thread was split awhile back on the fishing. Summer's almost here... Yippee!!!!

Yakutat Steelie



Filling the Freezer with Sockeye

[HaMeR]

After the Predation woes I sure hope WR can make this one fly with the big boys. I started with one of their tape players & lugged that beast all over the country side for crows,fox,coyotes, & even coon. That sucker was heavy but I never once under any conditions had a moments problem with it. I've talked to them on the phone a time or two & sure hope they have better luck with this one. I need to look that one over a little closer. 

[THO Game Calls]

Snowcamoman,

Let's assume, just for today, that the WT remote was deemed not in compliance with FCC rules, and, WT was fined by the FCC secretly and they paid their fine. 

The case would then be closed.  The FCC made it's decision, WT paid, end of story. 

We know that the caller was not taken off the market in any cares - weather this happened or not.

So, when Mike DIllon says


The other problem is that anyone using this system could also be subject to the wrath and fury of the FCC, including fines. If someone is using this caller, and there is an emergency that someone is trying to get through on the same channel, it will not go through. Are you condoning illegal activity?

It's just deceptive and nasty marketing tactics.

And when they continue to feed that information to their customers, and field staff by leaving it on their web site and having field staff, supporters and others spew it all over the Internet, that's just wrong.

An that is how this got started.  A FoxPro field staff made the statement about the illegal remote, AGAIN, and just let it hang out there for everyone to see.  FoxPro knows it's BS, but man, they just run with it like a like a street punk snatching a purse from a socialite.

For me at least, that Halo on Mike Dillons head doesn't look so shiny and bright anymore.   Lots of little Scorpion bites and dings from being out in the Open Country have mess it up a bit.  And this situation doesn't do him ANY help in getting that "good guy in the white hat" image back.  It just makes him look like one of the PM gang, after the almighty buck and buyer beware.  And his field staff that spew this kind of garbage lose a bit of thier credability when they repeat it also.  It's just a shame that Mike Dillon would allow a man like Rich Cronk to take the heat for something he knows is grabage.  Sorry Rich got drug into this, perhaps it will make him rethink his possition with Fox Pron.   What do you think?  Rich Cronk, Field Staff Wildlife Technologies?   Does that have a ring to it?   

AL

[FinsnFur]

  @ Al Your bad


SnowCamoman....I was talking about the field test you wrote and posted on many of these callers a couple years ago on PM

[studabaka]

Al,

You might want to consider putting down your horn and shovel....... you're down to spewing hate and bravado. We get it, you don't like foxpro.

It is a shame that Rich took heat, but unless your wearing teflon spandex, that ones on you bud.

How about we make a few posts on stuff we enjoy and maybe think about the meaning of Easter? Lots to be happy about 

[Rich]

snowcamoman,
Thank you for bringing the truth to light. Even though your" hands on"  investigation has zoomed over the heads of a few, I know one  tired and run down old man  that understands it.