tonights stand

[Rich]

Guys,,
When a critter comes in to investigate the screams, he may well come in from behind you. If you have the caller behind you, the critter may stick his nose right in the speaker but you won't see it happen.

[RShaw]

I agree with Rich. Someone always needs to be watching the caller because that is where the action will end up most times. I have two personal rules when hunting with an ecaller. I can always see the speaker and I never retrieve the caller without a gun in my hand.

Randy

[CCP]

what about setting the call in front of me about 20 yds staying back from the intersection around 50 yds?

Ben let me give you an example maybe it will help.


I used to kill coyotes for alot of watermelon farmers when I lived in FL. Alot of these places were new clear cuts with pine groves at the far end. The pine groves would usually be several thousand acres and to thick to hunt other than old logging roads and fire breaks.

I would only kill 10 or 15 coyotes in these roads but new there were more coyotes to be had. In my regular hunting around fields I would notice coyotes coming for a long distance on a run. Once they reached a certain distance from the sound were they felt safe they would stop for a moment and start to circle (usually around 150 to 200 yards). Taking that knowledge, I knew coyotes did the same in the woods they run in to a certain distance and then try to get a visual and then circle(usually 60 to 80 yards).

Using that observation I began setting up around 60 to 80 yards of a bend or rise in the roads. I started killing more coyotes. Then in 1987 an old plumber friend wanted to go with me on these watermelon raiders. I would set him up around the bend or over the rise and I would call around 60 or 80 yards from him.. He killed around 60 coyotes in two watermelon seasons like this. I never seen the coyotes only would hear the shot. I did have a few bobcats come out on me during this time. This is why I don't use this setup hunting bobcats.

I got a foxpro around 2004 or 05 and when by myself would set the foxpro up where I would have normally sat and I would sit where I would have normally set someone else and continue this to this day. If I get a call for a problem coyote I always set my shooter 60 or so yards in front of me toward where I believe the coyote to be at. Reason is when hunting problem coyotes I always use hand calls.

Here is another way of looking at it. If you have scouted and have a good idea of where the coyotes are and feel good about your setup, when using hand calls do you continually turn 90 degrees to look behind you? If not then why do you need to with the E-caller?

Ben when you read about other peoples hunts on the internet that hunt open fields they usually say something along these lines. The coyote came into around 150 to 200 yards and wouldn't come any closer and I shot him. Now think they do the same in the woods now what can a person do to close that distance?

Like Aaron says some coyotes will come bolting in with no caution to the wind but we aint setting up for them there coming no matter how you setup in most cases. I don't know about you but we don't have many coyotes that come running in a lot or out in the wide open areas. So we do some things different than the norm. If you do have alot of coyotes and they always come bolting in then DON'T set the caller behind you keep it in front of you where you can see it. If you have more than 1 in 20 coyotes bust you from behind then it is not the calling it is in how you are setting up.



The 14 yard coyote clip on youtube we have the caller 60 yards behind us and to the right. Nothing but big open field back there.

The white colered coyote in the video had the caller behind us 60yards and 60yards to our left. There was nothing but highway and a house past the caller so we knew nothing was coming from that direction.


Putting the caller behind you is not good on all setups but is a good tool in some situations logging roads being the best  situation. One other thing make sure there is not a game trail leading out of the thick woods on that section and you have a good cross wind. Of course in all good setups we know where all the game trails are from our pre scouting of the area.

Find a friend and one of you stay with the caller and the other up the road around a bend or over a rise the direction of where you think the coyote is and see. You maybe surprised at what you find.

Sorry so long Ben if you are still curious give me a call i will make you up a DVD on how to setup like this.

[possumal]

BigBen: As you can see, there are different strokes for different folks.  Never is a long time where coyote hunting is concerned, but I would never want to put the ecaller behind me.  I might have to some time if the situation dictates it, but in the big majority of circumstances, I want to see all around the ecaller.  In my opinion, you are giving up a valuable part of the ecaller when you give up the backside by placing the caller behind you.  Of course if you are hunting with a buddy, you aren't necessarily leaving the ecaller unwatched.  Like CCP, I wouldn't be looking behind me when using a mouth call, but I have been busted from the blind side plenty of times when hunting alone using hand calls.  That is one of the biggest advantages to a well placed ecaller, being able to watch all directions from the sound.  You will gain experience in the setups as time goes on, which is the most important element in coyote hunting to my way of thinking.

[Frogman]

Great thread guys!  Keep it going.  I'm learning.

Jim

[alscalls]

Today frogman and I put the e-caller between us and it was to both our backs. he was watching east and I was watching West on a dozered road..........I had a grey fox come in (blue dots, path he took) We can not hunt them yet so I let him get real close........(He stopped on the red arrow)
He started to leave away from me.....(Green arrow) I called him back to the red arrow two more times (About 10 feet from me with a mouth call!!!) All the while the E-caller was too my back, then he went right back on the path of the blue dots and circled around to frogman where he came too him twice.
Frogman and I were about 50 yds. apart and the E-caller between us .......the frog was sporting a shotgun and I a rifle.
I would say anything could work if you set it up right.....But we have all made the same mistakes and learning from those never stops.

[browning204]

what if you put the Ecaller  behind you but had an obstruction so the coyotes could not get behind you.

Such as having a swamp behind you and the Ecaller between that swamp and yourself. That way the coyote would have to either come in head on or try to flank you and it would leave very little room to get behind you.

I hunt close to the caller out of not being able to see throught the thick woods, Not like I shoot alot of stuff but in my situation, the caller wood be 30 or so yards behind me on the swamps edge.

Make any sense?

[Jrbhunter]

I would never want to put the ecaller behind me.  I might have to some time if the situation dictates it, but in the big majority of circumstances, I want to see all around the ecaller.  In my opinion, you are giving up a valuable part of the ecaller when you give up the backside by placing the caller behind you.

In order to never put an e-caller behind you: you'd have to know ALL variables on EVERY single stand before you hit the play button.  Foolishness.   Placement of a caller depends on the conditions given (terrain/weather/ect) along with the likely location of the coyotes your calling and finally including the wind direction and thus, the most likely path of approach.   To say the caller should "never" be "behind" you is inconcievable in calling Eastern coyotes.

Many folks have hard-fast rules about seeing the caller at all times- others want to watch all directions equally.  Personally I am willing to play the odds and give up the occasional coyote that comes in from up-wind to pounce directly on the speaker if it means having a better shot at the 85 coyotes that will sooner circle downwind at a comfortable distance.   I have no bobcat variable here- I have very few active daytime fox- so my woodland calling revolves around coyotes that are fairly predictable in their effort to not step on a sound before smelling it.

Large obstructions like lakes/swamps and cliffs do not necessarily work the way we'd like them too.  You'll probably see tracks all around from their daily grind- but working a call is another story.  Under the stress of working a calling stand they aren't likely to put themselves into a deathtrap inched between a source of anxiety and an impassible object.  The ones that do work into that pinchpoint will be more killable- but you've just knocked the percentage of coyotes willing to work a call down on that stand by sitting where you did.  Rather than using something to make it harder on a coyote- I prefer to leave his options open and make one route easiest.... that being the route to my muzzle.  Weather you're setting a speaker on a wooded hillside or trying to blend a Briger #3 into a flatset- the simple minded coyotes prefers to have options and security before he does the inevitable.

[Jrbhunter]

One final thought.... 80' whiteoaks and 36" goldenrod have one thing in common.  They're both over a coyotes head.  "Thick Cover" has as many definitions as the phrase "Behind You" in coyote hunting.



Left arrow representing a dead coyote... Right arrow representing the primary shooter on a stand.  I killed a coyote just 10/15 yards from the primary shooter because it "backdoored" him and the conventional caller placement which was upwind of him.








That stand produced that way not just once.... but twice.  Again I picked off a coyote just before he put the puzzle together: using terrain/cover & wind to his advantage he was able to backdoor the most "popular" methods of stand selection. 





Finally by putting the caller "behind" the primary shooter... he sniped an old 50 pound male at close range.  No more mop-work for me on this stand... caller placement changed the way we kill coyotes here.

[browning204]

Very good Jason! Your post always bring stuff to the table!

[Rich]

"Finally by putting the caller "behind" the primary shooter... he sniped an old 50 pound male at close range.  No more mop-work for me on this stand... caller placement changed the way we kill coyotes here."
------------------------------------------------------------
It is this type of bad advice that causes the unknowing newcomer to become confused and often scared away from even trying to learn the proper way to call critters. It is also why I don't give advice on public boards very  much anymore. I have been calling wild critters since JRB was still in diapers, but he is already set himself up as the "all knowing". The development of the remote controlled E caller was meant for the purpose of getting the sound and scent out away from the hunter. Now JRB has stated above that the "traditional" E caller placement is to set the E caller upwind of the hunter. I find that statement foolish and misguided. Doing this means that the all knowing JRB is still practicing the old wind in your face method, which I learned long ago is a very bad idea. He also has not yet figured out that the coyote that circles around  is trying to get down-wind of the screams before final approach. Setting the caller behind you and watching upwind? Maybe JRB should check for fresh coyote tracks down-wind  of where he had been sitting. He just might open his eyes a little bit when he learns how many times he is getting back doored. I am an old fart with no need to prove anything to anybody. My knees are bad, four arteries in my heart have been bypassed and I carry too dang much body fat around. I can't hunt as hard or as long as I once did. I will not allow age to enter in to my quest to learn more about the coyote, nor will I allow the youth an inexperience of Mr. JRB  to influence my opinion of the fellow. Placing the caller behind you  where you can not see it is always a bad idea, period. JRB kills a few coyote that way. I know he does, or he wouldn't have said that he does. What I also know is this. JRB would kill a heck of a lot MORE coyotes if he learns to open his mind. Place the dang caller CROSS-WIND for crying out loud, and watch the DOWN-WIND side at least 90 percent of the time.

Edit: In reading JRB's post, I believe that I misinterpreted  which way he watches according to wind direction. I didn't read it very well beyond the first paragraph. I also believe that he hunts with a pardoner a lot, which makes a huge difference. I stand by my statement that placing the caller behind you where you can't see it is a very bad idea. Someone needs to be watching that area where caller is sitting.

[FinsnFur]

Another thing to consider, in my own personal opinion anyway, is too not bank too much of your strategy on the actions of called in Grey Fox.
Those things have to be the dumbest creatures on earth. They will bang their head on the barrel of your rifle, run under your truck, run across your legs, run away and then come back and do it all again.

[iahntr]

I need more greys around here !!     

[FinsnFur]

Randy Buker (Hunting the Night Shift) used to call them ego boosters.

[George Ackley]

I haven't read all the post but ,hear is my take,
I cant tell by the photo just how I would go about calling it, if I could see the photo zoomed way out to where I could see more of the terrain I could  better tell how I would go about calling it.
But to me after reading what the hunter did just make me think this,  some time your get to bust a primer and sometimes you don't, I don't think you did anything wrong, just got out witted by the critter. witch i feel happens to most of us most of the time .
everyone knows I am a big believer in staying as far out of the critters territory  as possible when calling coyotes here in eastern PA,, I would of went 25 yards of the road and called, I like doing this for many resins. first let me say this  I would most likely only stopped in the area if the wind is right,with the wind  coming out to the road or a cross wind coming from the direction I think the critter will approach . Since my thinking has let me down so many times on where I think they should come from I now fined my self calling spots when the wind is bad, they  the critters make mistakes to if they didn't we wouldn't kill as many so by just stopping and calling just off the road it doing a couple thing to help yea out , first being that the noise of a good road can cover many noises you will be making on entering the woods and setting up and also  at the same time the road I find makes a great barrier for them to not wont to cross to try and back door yea or get your sent..I have always thought if you can put a barrier behind you that they don't like to enter or cross the better you be for it. I feel the critter nose that your and my sent equals danger , are woods here are just so USED ,,,Hikers , bikers, walkers fisherman bird watchers mushroom hunter picture takers kids playing and hunters, ask the average person going to the wood how many coyotes or bear they have encountered on there outing?  most likely the answer more times then not will be never.
so staying as far out of the target critters area the better here in northeastern PA
another thing i  keep in the back of my mined is that lots critters meet there demise from car bumpers and die close to the road,so my whimpers of a dyeing rabbit my not be that far from being realistic .
So for me i would try and call that spot if possible,,,,from the least invasive set up i could make.

I haven't put a call behind me wile i was alone, but one trick that works when calling with a partner is to set them up 75 yards out in front of me , and i would call, they would shoot, and lots of time this has worked well with are hard to kill coyote , they are busting me on thier last one or two times they check up to try and locate the sound, in the right situation and a good shooter out in front of the caller this setup  can help shooter get a shot off and crack the cranium of a call shy critter as he looks for the location of my cry's. if you think you know witch way the critter fox or coyote will enter the area i think a guy calling alone could possibly trick the critter and kill him as he checks up to look for the call thats x amount of yards behind yea,, i guess that's one of the perks of a remote and a electronic call you can put it way back behind yea and work it on and off... now doing this with a good barrier behind you would work even better.

I don't think the hunter from what his map shows did anything wrong , sometime you get and sometimes you don't

sorry about my bad writing skills

[alscalls]

Randy Buker (Hunting the Night Shift) used to call them ego boosters.

All I was trying to point out was......ya never really know what is going to happen on any particular stand. Ya just should never stop trying to learn from the good and the bad, and give it your best effort........Like the coyote does you.

[FinsnFur]

Oh I agree 100% Al.
Coyotes dont have a written reference to refer to, so they know how to respond to the call. Ya just never know what will happen.

And dont get me wrong. When a Grey shows up to my calling, I still enjoy it

[coyotehunter_1]

I killed a coyote just 10/15 yards from the primary shooter because it "backdoored" him and the conventional caller placement which was upwind of him.

When dealing with coyote behavior I try to avoid saying never and you guys can put the caller any where you want, it don't make a damn to me,

BUT I can assure you of one thing... if anyone was ever stupid enough to let off a shot, aimed anywhere in my direction, I can guarantee it would never happen again.


Foolishness does not even start to describe that type of behavior. 

[THO Game Calls]

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.   

Al

[possumal]

Yeah, that shot was was too close to suit me. I don't want the business end of my hunting partner's barrel to be pointed anywhere near me.