Rainshadow..........

[Todd Rahm]

Rainshadow since you make assumptions of me in a forum I can not respond to, let me do it here.

Eric, I think the whole FnF thing was EXTREMELY uncalled for. Honestly. The originator was mad because he lost an opportunity, and it blew up from there. You do kinda have to walk on eggs in some ways because this is still small enough for reputations to be destroyed. But I think it was grossly wrong. Even if I agree with them, they have no right to tell a man what he can and can't do in a free market society. That's why we live in this country! It's just WRONG on a very deep level. They are WRONG, ethically and morally. Whether their thinking is wrong or right is a personal judgement. I think you know I don't mind. If you win one of my auctions, that's what the market would bear, I'm happy. If you buy one of my listings, that's what I priced it at, I'm happy. If you think there's margin after that, so be it. It's a free market.
Can't comment freely over there because it's the rule of the mob, everybody knows that. It's unfair, but it's how these forum things work. Just so you know, I think they were way out of line, in some very deep and serious ethical and moral ways. That you buy and resell calls is only the context, the agregious error is in bullying another man in a free country. SERIOUSLY wrong.

--------------------
- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls

The originator was mad because he lost an opportunity, and it blew up from there.

This is further from the truth and I think this reflects on your lack of experience with the most of the calling community. For the record I have all those calls, but if had a shot at it might have taken one, but thats not what initiated my post. What initiated it was is the accumilation of Erics actions overe time, and as I said for $5 more then what Eric paid for those ya can get them direct from Jay, so its not like they are  shortage.


The rest in the middle of your post is your opinion and we here would respect ya more if ya just say it.

Can't comment freely over there because it's the rule of the mob, everybody knows that. It's unfair, but it's how these forum things work. Just so you know, I think they were way out of line, in some very deep and serious ethical and moral ways. That you buy and resell calls is only the context, the agregious error is in bullying another man in a free country. SERIOUSLY wrong.

You can comment freely here thats the nice thing. I might not like what ya have to say and you might not like what I say, but thats mutal respect thing thats allowed here ay FNF.

I think I'll let the rest of the mob voice there opinions, and thanks for being up front with me and appearantly the others.

[FinsnFur]

I gotta agree.
I think your completely over reacting Rainshadow, on something that amounted to nothing more then 7 or 8 individuals voicing their opinions.

Based on your last few posts here and then what Todd has brought to light, you make it sound as though were threatening him, or sueing him, or asking him to close his shop, or god knows what else. There isn't nothing like that happening here  there never was, not now not ever. Simply voicing how we view it or what we think of it.

I particularly appreciate the "cant comment freely over there" comment. That's about as black as the kettle is going to get in the pots eyes. Everyone here voiced their comments freely, you included. But you didnt get the reaction or the support you wanted so you went and drug it into someones elses lap where you knew you'd get it.

I'm not reprimanding you, I'm voicing my comments freely. Just as I'll expect you to do with no reprecussional measures. And I'd most likely still buy a call from you if I saw one that tickled my fancy since I disagree with your opinion and not you as a person. Because that's the type of members this board has been made from and I take no credit for that.

[keekee]

Can't comment freely over there because it's the rule of the mob, everybody knows that. It's unfair, but it's how these forum things work. Just so you know, I think they were way out of line, in some very deep and serious ethical and moral ways. That you buy and resell calls is only the context, the agregious error is in bullying another man in a free country. SERIOUSLY wrong.

I can tell you this!

We here at FNF have went out of our way to make sure the members here could post freely! Always! And to say something like this really disturbs me and makes me wonder what you intentions here are? Maybe you could explain it to me Rain?


Brent

[THO Game Calls]

they have no right to tell a man what he can and can't do in a free market society

You need to stop frequenting boards run by Canadians.

Al

[FOsteology]

This is further from the truth and I think this reflects on your lack of experience with the most of the calling community.

Todd plunged into a sea of platitudes, and with the powerful breast stroke of a channel swimmer, made his confident way towards the white cliffs of the obvious.....

[rainshadow1]

Todd,

My comments to Eric concerning you were an assumption, based on the Rhino calls Rick posted, that he jumped on. You say there's more to it than that, so I apologize. That comment pointed my disagreement at you, instead of at the overall tone of the thread. In light of your comments here, that was wrong. I'm sorry, Todd. My feeling on the matter is rooted very deep, and hasn't changed, but I pointed my feeling at you, which wasn't right.

I'll try to explain where I'm coming from, and hopefully that will put things into a context where it makes more sense.

I've more or less bought low and sold high my whole life, since I was a child. I was raised to make my own way, and only punch a clock if times got hard. Work harder and smarter than the next guy, and you'll be the one who's still eating. I've run little businesses since I was pre-teen. My Family was self employed, and I've continued the tradition.  Both full time, and a whole hat full of part time efforts. (Like right now for instance... I have a full time storefront business, and my wife and I have three or four other little ventures going at the same time.)

What I saw, my perception of that thread, was berating and brow beating a man for trying to take advantage of opportunities. Where I come from, seeing an opportunity and grabbing it is a good thing. Admirable. What you're supposed to do. How you make a living, pay your bills, and feed your family. To attack that (which was what I was hearing) I have to take very personal. You (the thread) weren't talking to me, but you (the thread) were unknowingly talking about me.
    I'll allow that it's possible I spoke too soon out of ignorance, and that maybe 9th has at times said one thing and done another. I've just never seen it, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I appreciate it when someone gives me the benefit of the doubt. I try to use that as a guide.
    As to buying from friends low and selling to strangers high, I do that. I tell them right up front that's what I'm doing. I buy theft and damage recovery vehicles, rebuild them, and resell them. Often, I have friends or acquaintences try to trade vehicles to me for stuff I've got for sale. Friend or total stranger, I tell them immediately, "You'll make more money selling it yourself. I'm only going to give you about half of what I think I can get for it." That's my schpiel. The first sentence out of my mouth. Every single time. People appreciate that, they're not used to it from someone selling cars.  If they just want to bail on the car, then they give it to me. If not, they get an ad in the paper. Nobody gets worked up about it. If I get it, I make money they could have made if they had been more patient. That's how it works in my life.

I heard that thread saying that since it was game calls, that wasn't ok.  

My comment about "over there" was in that thread. Things were rolling along there. I think you can understand that.

Hope that kinda explains my passion in coming to a fellow entreprenur's defense. If there's more to it, factors, or stories that I just don't know about, then I was out of line. But I haven't seen or heard them yet. Eric seems a good guy.


Jim, You run a good forum. I was talking about the thread. I saw folks ganging up. I thought "mob" was an appropriate description of how that thread was going. Hope you can stand in my shoes and understand what I was saying.

Brent, I've spent time on FnF for the same reason I've initially spent time on any of the other forums. I love to hunt. I love to talk about hunting. I love to read hunting stories and see hunting pictures.  Do I need, "...intentions?" Not sure what you're driving at there.

Al, Nice to talk to you again. I'll get you to write back to me one way or the other! :roflmao: (Canada is a free market society too, I think.) I still appreciate you and your guidance.


Let me know if you have any more concerns.

- - Steve

[THO Game Calls]

Al, Nice to talk to you again. I'll get you to write back to me one way or the other

I'm not sure what's so funny here, nor do I know what you are talking about.  However, I will hazard a guess.

When you first started making calls, oh, 10 or 11 months ago at most, you would write me a couple times a week. sometimes more.  I think I answered all of your questions as best I could, but perhaps I missed one. 

After you became a call maker on PM though, I never heard from you again.   Except for one small order you placed a month ago.

I do know, that you went to great lengths to find out how I made my decorative brass bands, but you never asked me.  The sad part is, I would have told you, as it was no secret.  I posted that information on this board, told eveyone exactly what I used and how I did it.  Guess you missed that post eh?

So, if you have something to ask me or say to me, my e mail is no secret.  Unlike your buddy Tebbe who only knows two kinds of call makers, those he has screwed, and those he is going to screw, I have helped every call maker that has aked me.  You insinuating that I ignored you is rather rude.


Al

[BryanStanley]

I must have missed that post on the bands.....................my dumb luck

[THO Game Calls]

You must have, because I put it up.

Here is the post  http://www.finsandfur.net/forums/index.php?topic=1581.0

If you go to page two, you will see that Lonehowl asked me how they were made.  And I explained it.  As I always do.

But, after I found out that our buddy Rainshadow was asking around, I edited that information out, as you will see in the post. 

When you asked me, I told you I was not ready to give that information up.   

There comes a point Brian, where you get tired of being screwed by people.  I see a lot of this with the really experienced turkey call guys and some of the duck call guys.  And while it used to bother me somewhat, I understand where they are coming from now.  So for now, there are some things that I am going to have to start keeping to myself. 

If that offends you, I apologize.  But you have already proved you are able to work things out for yourself and that you are very creative, so if you want to, you can figure this out too.

I certainly don't see Tebbe posting a tutorial on molding plastic - and i am sure a lot of guys would like to know that tool.

When the lanyard tutorial on PM was taken down, the asked the people there who made lanyards if one of them would post a new one -as of today, the only one I am aware of on the entire internet is the one here and the one on my web site - both posted by me. 

So if you think bad of me for not giving this bit of information up, again, I apologize.

Al

 

[BryanStanley]

Al
I really don't blame ya for that. And as for offending me.............well it takes alot to do that. You were not even close. I'll finger it out one day when I have the time. Right now I have some calls to make.


Bryan

[rainshadow1]

Al,

I still appreciate you and your guidance.

I commented on the bands because I liked them. I thought they were super. I wondered how you did it. I assumed it was a Sorby stippling tool, which I couldn't afford, so I made one.

- - Steve

[THO Game Calls]

Rainshadow --  

One last point on this topic -

Less than a year ago, Joey Gatnic of Purgatory Predator Calls found out that eiter his first or one of his first calls was in Ninethinnings E bay store.  He posted about it on PM.  There was a pretty big debate about it.  

I jsut did a search and went through every post from the day Joey became a call maker.

It appears PM pulled the post because it is no longer there.

That's the real MOB mentaility - the mob over there can only say what they want them to say.  No matter where the say it or even if it is in Private E mail or on another board

Al


 

[THO Game Calls]

Nope, not the sorby tool.  You would ruin the cutters on the tool if you used it for that, and they have to be sharpened by hand.  Like any tool, you can only sharpen them so many times, and at 35 bucks each for replacement cutters, it would not be worth it.

If you could not afford the 170 bucks for the sorby tool, you'llhave a hard tine swallowing the 400 to 1000 bucks for the air drill power carver and bits, compressor and other things to make the bands.  You'll also need a chuck, two hacksaws, one iwth 18 teath per inch and one with 24 to 32 teath per inch.  Some sanding cord, a belt sander, and lots of time and paitence and a bull nose live center is a big help too.

Happy now ?  You have all you need to know to get started.

That's it for me.   I've helped you guys all I will. 

Like Brain said, I have calls to turn

Al

[keekee]

Brent, I've spent time on FnF for the same reason I've initially spent time on any of the other forums. I love to hunt. I love to talk about hunting. I love to read hunting stories and see hunting pictures.  Do I need, "...intentions?" Not sure what you're driving at there.

I am not driving at anything Rain. Just asked you a question. If you intentions are to talk calls, hunting, post storeys and such we wont have no problems. But if you intentions are to take threads that are started here to a place that these guys can not defend them selves and talk about them, then we have a problem.

Just like Jim said, this is not your ordinary board. You will not have a thread deleted here or edited unless you really cross the line. I been here sense the place was started and have never deleted or edited a post! So, if you got something to say, then just say it here. Don't take it some were else and do it. These guys are all grown men and have proved they can handle them selves just fine in a polite and Seville debate on a open forum. We have no problems here at all. You wont see the pissing match threads here that you see over there!

And to be honest, I didn't like the comments that you used in your post over there, they just didn't set right with me. Mob? Were did that come from.

I understand you were up set and took that thread diff rent than the rest of us did. No big deal but you should of said it here not some were else.

Brent

[rainshadow1]

Brent,

I appreciate your position and your thoughts. I said it to Eric, by way of encouragement and support. It happened to be there. Where wasn't even a thought at the time, it was who. I can't PM here. I saw him in that thread, I tried to throw him some encouragement.

Al, I've been checkering, stippling, and texturing brass bands with a carbide dremel cutting bit greased in a piece of delrin. Pretty good results for about 14 bucks. I'm tapering and grooving with tiny scrapers I made from broken drill bit shafts. Not as nice as yours, but I get by.

-- Steve

[Todd Rahm]

Rain,

I thank you for your apology, and I also apologize if my comments about Ninth offended ya, as that was not my intentions at all.

The bottom line here, is everyone speaks their honest piece of mind. It doesn't have to be nice, it doesn't have to be politically correct, it just has to be honest and from the heart.

You can always disagree with me, make statements about me in a public forum, and ya can always speak your piece and stand your ground. I, and many others will respect ya more for it.

I have been doing this for several years, and have seen call makers come and call makers go, but it seems to be the honest and ethical folks that make up the majority of the hobby family so to speak. We don't all like each other and we don't all share the same ideas, but we are strong both ethically and morally.

I periodically cross the lines and you along with others will check me and speak your opinions, and I won't think any less of ya. As long as your stance is the same no matter where ya hang your posting hat, and that's the case with most folks here. You'll hear bad things about most of as and you'll hear good things about us, but one look at the caliber of folks we run with, and you'll know exactly what and who you'll get.

This will be my last and final statement about Ninth and the whole situation.

I have a game call collection I am proud of and show it off by way of my Ebay store.

Just how stupid does he think we, and mostly you guys that have access to this particular forum are? Uh, maybe if I tell them its just my way of showing my collection.......they'll bite on it?  I just happened to notice his call collection pictures have prices right next to them.......................and.................HELLO...........they are in a store.

Just be careful, and don't be blinded by passiveness.

Thanks again for replying.

[rainshadow1]

Thanks Todd.

Some of us make our living capitalizing (sometimes quickly) on opportunities we see. (I'll be out at the garage sales in the morning doing just that, looking for cars, and e-bay fodder! Another of my sidelines!) I think you can and do appreciate that. Thanks for your candor, it's always best. I'm learning.

I don't agree with saying one thing and doing another in any context in life, ever.

- - Steve

[Bills Custom Calls]

Al I don't know if you need this but I feel I need to say something on your behalf

Al has been helping me for awhile now just because he don't reply right away to a message don't mean he doesn't read it I may send 2 messages to Al and get 1 response but the response covers both messages Hell he has even taken time out of his busy day and called me.Sure we shot the bull a little but most of the conversation covered call building and answering my questions,and giving tips.

[bigben]

the way I see this whole deal with buying something and selling it at a higher price is practiced every day.  the mark up rate on allmost everything you see in a store is atleast 100% if not more.  I do know that these electronic calls that people buy are very high priced but because of the number of them being sold the prices cannot come down.  (by the way I do have a 700 dollar foxpro)  one thing you do not see however is if somebody makes me a custom knife or gun I do not take that same gun and sell it for twice of what i just payed for it.  and like todd has said I do not think anyone that might know the callmaker would buy something at a price higher then what you can buy directly from him.  this is just human nature at its best.  everyone wants a high priced thing lower.  so in a way I see rainshadow's point but if he wants to sell custom calls for more then they are selling for from the call spinner start selling commercial calls.   

al I for one appreciate the laynard tutorials and still kinda makes me mad about some of the mods making you look like the bad guy and then locking the thread

[ninthinning]

Todd, 
   My Ebay store has one of the best inventories of calls on the internet.  I am very proud of the success of my game call business and it turns a pretty good profit.  The American Free Enterprise System is what allows me to do this.  I am free to buy and sell. Where else can a person go and buy a call made by the best call makers in America in one spot.  You point out that my Rhino calls are over priced. I don't buy that argument.  Many of the calls in my inventory are one of a kind creations.  You said my Cronk calls are over priced.  Not at all. They are spectacular one of a kind pieces.
   I have polled the call makers and there are three that do not want me to buy there calls and resell them on Ebay.  Other call makers have said they are happy with me buying and reselling their calls.  I pulled the calls out of my store inventory from call makers that didn't want them there.  In the future I will buy calls from makers who want my business and will not buy calls from those that do not want my business.  There are alot of call makers today, alot of choices.  Fierce competition is good,  it pushes the call makers to do better and gives the hunter choices.  I buy from call makers I feel will be here over the long haul and who's calls will increase in value over time.
   You have been saying for a very long time now I copy others calls yet you have NEVER showed a single example.  My Ebay store is also full of my calls.  Go there and pull some pictures of the calls you are talking about and then come up with a picture of the call I copied from.  Post them side by side and we can discuss it.
   You mentioned my calls are not that good.  How can you know this?  I put my heart soul and alot of effort into my calls.  They are original designs and I have spent a great deal of time working out the fine details of my designs.  From day one my calls have called and killed predators.  Each call I make is better than the one that came before it.  You expressed your doubt that my writings have influenced others.  Call makers have said they have learned from  my posts.  Posts written with the purpose of showing others how I do things so that they may benefit from my knowledge.
    I am proud of my store,  I am proud of all the fine calls in my inventory,  I am proud of the calls I make.  Am I in it for the money? Yes.  Do I love to make game calls? Yes, with a passion.
    My worry is that young call makers will read opinions written by mature call makers that condemn profits.  They read that they should be making calls and selling at cost to support someones hunting hobby.   I sell my calls for a price that is good for me and I encourage other call makers to sell their calls at prices that will benefit them.
Eric